Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] You're listening to a live recording from Westside Church in Bend, Oregon. Thanks for joining us.
[00:00:06] Good morning, everybody. I'm Ben Fleming, one of the senior pastors here, and we're starting a new series of talks over the next several weeks called Good Questions. And in this series, we will ask good questions to you. Now we're going to give you a few good answers to these questions. It's also probably going to create a few more questions for you to wrestle with, especially with God and with Scripture. Right.
[00:00:31] But just so for me, personally, I'm a pastor's kid. A lot of, you know, my story wrestled with faith throughout my entire life and drawn lots of different conclusions and then changed my mind. And there's so many things that I hold absolutely firm to, and there's so many things that I wonder about that I've kind of developed the mantra in my faith of I love Jesus and I have questions.
[00:00:52] I love Jesus and I have questions.
[00:00:55] In my opinion, that's a healthy way to take on this faith. I think the moment that we feel like we have absolutely every single thing figured out is a moment that we're going to be full of anxiety and full of difficulty, and there's a better way to actually go ahead and follow after Jesus. And so much of that comes with trying to understand how we read scripture and how we approach Scripture. And so for me, how I grew up, I took on this really prescriptive idea of scripture, which means I would see what God was telling people in the Bible, and then I would say, okay, that message is for me. And so I'm going to try to do what that person does in Scripture.
[00:01:32] And of course, if you take that too literally, it gets pretty weird pretty fast, right? To be really prescriptive about your faith means that you should go ahead and try to walk across the deschutes after this service, and you should go ahead and prepare your firstborn child for sacrifice. And you should probably stop eating bacon also, you know, and Lord knows I'm not doing the third one.
[00:01:56] And so you go from really prescriptive, Right? And so. And that led me into this.
[00:02:00] This kind of growing up moment where I was like, well, being prescriptive, I feel like scripture contradicts itself so often. And I hit this point in my faith where I said, all right, fine, bag it. The Bible's not reliable, and I have no interest in it. And then the worst thing happened to me after that, and that is that I fell in love with scripture because I began to understand that scripture is incredibly Nuanced. And it's meant to be understood inside of context and through a different approach and filter of how I understand and read the Bible. All of a sudden, it became alive to me and I fell more in love with Scripture and. Than ever. And so one of the big contradictions that I've found in my life is that the Bible is full of these big, big, big stories, right, of incredible bravery and courage and faith. And there's all these massive moments, whether it's Jesus disciples or all the stories from the Old Testament.
[00:02:49] And I began to believe, especially as a kid, I began to believe. Like this idea of following after Jesus is meant to lead to these huge moments.
[00:02:58] Myself, I think there have been some big moments in my life, but I've also discovered that that hasn't necessarily been the case hour by hour and day by day and year by year.
[00:03:09] And actually, there's a contradiction that I found in several places of Scripture, and I'm going to highlight one of them for you right now in First Thessalonians. That feels like it actively goes against this idea that faith is supposed to be meant for these big moments. And so in First Thessalonians, chapter 4, the apostle Paul says this in verse 11, he says, make it your ambition to lead a quiet life.
[00:03:31] You should mind your own business and work with your hands.
[00:03:37] And then people who are not believers will respect the way that you live and you will not need to depend on others.
[00:03:44] That's a strange sentence for Paul to throw out in his letter to the people at Thessalonica. Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, right?
[00:03:52] Make it your ambition.
[00:03:55] Now, I understand ambition, I think.
[00:03:58] But to make it your ambition to build something makes sense to me. Or to accomplish something or to be influential, or again, to make history. If you grew up in church in the similar era that I did, you'll know that Christian music almost didn't really exist. It certainly didn't exist how it does today. And so a lot of my friends, their first albums, you know, were like Led Zeppelin and stuff like that. My first album was Jars of Clay and Third Day. Yeah, we got some hardcore Christians in the house in here, you know, Keith Green was one of my first albums.
[00:04:34] But I remember that there was this worship album that came out from this band named Delirious. And I would fight you to say I think it's still the greatest worship album that has ever come out in the history of mankind. They had this song on there that I loved that Youth Love. Like this was our anthem, right and it was called History Maker. And it literally said in the chorus, I'm gonna be a history maker in this land.
[00:04:56] And so that's how I think about ambition. And I like that. That language works for me. I like goals, I like records. I like making a mark. I like the idea of having this tremendous legacy of making history. And now Paul is using this word ambition, which I understand, but he's saying, make it your ambition to lead a quiet life.
[00:05:16] This is confusing to me.
[00:05:18] It feels contradictory. Be ambitious about being quiet.
[00:05:22] It's not a phrase that I'm used to.
[00:05:26] Be intentional about being ordinary.
[00:05:29] Build your life around becoming the kind of person who doesn't need everyone to notice the life that you're building now. I wonder if we have underestimated how radical that kind of a life actually is, because we love lives and that are often rewarded for spectacle. And in our culture today, everything has to be bigger. It's got to be more impressive and dramatic and visible. And unfortunately, Christianity is not immune from this same phenomenon. And sometimes we begin to imagine that if God is really at work in someone's life, it should be obvious. There should be dramatic stories and dramatic experiences and dramatic demonstrations.
[00:06:10] Faith. Now, I want to be clear.
[00:06:12] I am all for 100% dramatic transformation. I believe that following Jesus should lead to a transformed life. It should change the way that you think and the way that you speak and the way that you approach work and worship in the world.
[00:06:29] But I wonder if this looks different than it often has inside of my own mind, because there are moments when Jesus. And when following Jesus and you read in the Scripture, there's these really dramatic moments, right? Jesus walks on the water, the parting of the Red Sea, the healing of a man born blind. And there's moments of breakthrough when we follow Jesus, right? We experience those kinds of breakthrough. There can be healing for you or a family member, someone you know, moments of extraordinary courage. And there's moments when God interrupts our lives suddenly and powerfully. And I thank God for those moments.
[00:07:03] And I've been able to experience one or two in my lifetime.
[00:07:07] But my question for you today is, what if our Christian lives don't regularly and always look like that?
[00:07:13] So then what does it mean? That maybe if radically saved is actually often the slow and steady walk of following Jesus in ways that are small, unremarkable, and ordinary, but faithful.
[00:07:27] There's an interesting example of this, I think, in Luke, chapter eight. So if you know this story, Jesus and his disciples, he's just calmed the storm on the Sea of Galilee. And then they end up on the other side and they meet this man who is. He's possessed by demons.
[00:07:44] And the entire area knows about this guy, and they stay away from him. Jesus shows up and he casts out the demons and he puts them in pigs, and then the pigs throw themselves off of the cliff. If you're unfamiliar with the story, I got to believe that what I'm saying right now sounds really insane.
[00:07:59] You guys know this story. The demons come out and the pigs and whee. You know, and then they're off.
[00:08:04] Don't worry about it. It's fine.
[00:08:06] Skipping to the end, but I am skipping to the end. It says In Luke chapter 8, verse 37, it says, Then the whole throng of people of the surrounding region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them, for they were seized with great fear. And he got in the boat and returned. And the man from the demons had gone out and begged that he might be with him.
[00:08:25] But Jesus sent him away saying, return to your home and declare how much God has done for you. And so he went away proclaiming throughout the city how much Jesus had done for him. This is a moment, right? And we see it in other places of Scripture. Jesus goes up to these disciples and he finds them working and fishing or what have you, and he says, hey, you need to come and follow me. And this is a massive moment, and it's one that we love to talk about as preachers all the time, that Jesus is going to come to you, he's going to tap you on the shoulder, he's going to declare to you, coming to follow me, and then you're going to discover your calling and following after Jesus. Here's a man who himself experiences an incredible miracle, and he comes to Jesus, begging to be one of these disciples and followers. And Jesus says, you know, what's next for you?
[00:09:06] Go home.
[00:09:08] What?
[00:09:10] What a bummer.
[00:09:12] And we never glorify this right in the church. I've never heard a pastor at least come onto the platform on the stage and go, and then Jesus is going to come. He's going to heal you, and then he's going to look at you and he's going to say, go back to your house.
[00:09:25] Wow.
[00:09:27] Mind blowing.
[00:09:30] Go home. Like, I'm looking for an experience and you give me home.
[00:09:36] Now, I'm not exactly sure what this man's task was in, like, intimate detail, but I wonder if through his miracle, Jesus would have been proud of him in the long term for slowly becoming more loving and more joyful more peaceful, more patient, more kind, more faithful, more gentle, and more self control.
[00:09:51] I wonder if that would be his ultimate testimony.
[00:09:54] And interestingly enough, when Paul describes the work of the Holy Spirit, then in a different work in Galatians, in chapter five, that's what he talks about. He doesn't describe spectacle. He talks about fruit and the slow process of being able to grow good fruit.
[00:10:09] And so Galatians, if you're unfamiliar, is written to a church that's caught in a spiritual argument. And at the center of the argument is circumcision. There were teachers telling these Gentile Christians, Jesus is good, faith is good, grace is good. But if you're really going to belong to the people of God, if you're really serious, if you really want to be faithful, then you need this outward mark. You need circumcision. Now, I would like to have a quick moment of self awareness to understand that preachers can just talk really casually about circumcision, which I understand is a weird thing to be casual about. And I just need you to know I don't like talk like this in my normal life. All right?
[00:10:46] Who talks about circumcision? You know, it's pastors and pediatricians. That's the, that's the intersection of circumcision here.
[00:10:59] And Paul is furious about this entire conversation because it's kind of taken over the narrative of the church because underneath the theological debate, he understands that they're not just talking about this religious practice. Instead, he understands that people were being taught that Jesus is not enough.
[00:11:18] That's what's beneath this argument.
[00:11:21] You needed Jesus plus proof, Jesus plus this outward demonstration, Jesus plus something that they could point to. And then they could say, see, look how I'm doing. I know that I really belong. Now then Paul says in Galatians 5, it's for freedom that Christ has set us free.
[00:11:39] And then he goes on to say in verse six, neither circumcision or uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
[00:11:48] Now this is extraordinary, especially in the context, because he's saying that this isn't about religious performance, which is so pervasive in the context and at the time of these people. The issue isn't about this outward marker. The issue isn't whether your spirituality impresses someone else. Paul says, the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
[00:12:08] That's it. If you're looking for a test, that's the test.
[00:12:12] Okay, so you have faith. Is it expressed then in love? Otherwise, your faith is probably more dead than you think. And so the questions that he asks is not how intense are you? Or how emotional are you? How impressive is your testimony? How disciplined does your spirituality appear? How many Bible verses do you know? And how loudly do you worship? He's saying, how is your faith producing love? That's what this thing comes down to.
[00:12:35] And I want you to know that we want to preach the exact same thing here in this church.
[00:12:40] That's the ultimate question for Westside.
[00:12:43] Not what kind of preachers they have, not what kind of music, and not what kind of programming. The only question for how well we are doing as a church is not how much we can grow the number of people that exist in the room. It's how can we understand our faith being producing love in our community and in our lives?
[00:13:01] And so later, in Galatians 6, Paul returns one last time to the circumcision controversy. Okay, we're almost done with the circumcision stuff.
[00:13:10] He says, those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. Listen to that. Those who want to impress people. People.
[00:13:23] That's the problem, not devotion. The problem isn't the need to prove something. Paul fought. People obsessed with outward displays of devotion. And against that noise is when Paul keeps pointing people back to something that's way quieter. And this is the fact of the matter for Paul, that Christ has already done the work and Jesus has already given himself for you. And you don't have to mutilate your body to prove that you belong to God. And that means you don't have to impress God. You don't have to impress the church. You don't have to impress the people that sit in the row with you right now. Your confidence cannot be in what you have done for God, but instead, your confidence has to be in what Christ has already done for you.
[00:14:02] That's what our faith is built on.
[00:14:05] His body, his blood, his cross, his resurrection. That has to be enough. And so at this moment, I believe that Jesus invites us in to breathing and resting.
[00:14:16] And now, what the Apostle Paul would describe as walking, that's actually Paul's language. In Galatians 5. 16, he says, walk by the Spirit.
[00:14:30] I kind of love that Paul says, walk.
[00:14:32] I gotta believe it's very intentional.
[00:14:35] Cause Paul, and maybe he didn't meet with his marketing department, understood there was a lot of other really good things that were on the table for this phrase.
[00:14:41] Cause he could have said lots of things. He could have conjured up lots of images. He could have said, sprint by the spirit.
[00:14:48] He could have said, charge ahead by the spirit and conquer by the spirit and soar like the eagle in the spirit.
[00:14:55] All these were open to him. But instead, Paul says, walk. Now, I don't know if you know this, but walking is incredibly unimpressive.
[00:15:04] Okay? The only time you've ever been impressed by walking is when it's someone that's like, you know, 13 months old. There's one moment that we have in our life where everybody around us goes, oh, they're walking.
[00:15:16] Would you look at that?
[00:15:18] And then nobody ever says that to you ever again.
[00:15:21] Not a single time. We become less and less and less impressed with ourselves. Just so you know, it's not particularly impressive. I was just in Scotland with a group from Westside that we went and walked this pilgrimage trail called St. Cuthbert's Way from Melrose over the Scottish borders into England. You end on Holy island, and at the end of a couple of legs, we had to be picked up by a taxi to get us back to the place that we were staying.
[00:15:47] And in one of these moments, I sat in the front seat of the taxi because the rest of it was full. And you know your job. When you sit in the front seat of a taxi, you gotta talk with that cabbie.
[00:15:58] That is your job. Now, at least me being a really codependent person, I believe that that's my job. Some of you, I've seen you. You sit in those seats and you don't say a word. And I am so jealous.
[00:16:10] I was an Uber driver here in town for several years, and you guys, it was almost like Tourette's. Like, I just couldn't help it. Somebody get in my car.
[00:16:19] So how's the night going?
[00:16:22] Crazy weather, right? And I'm literally up in the driver's seat going, shut up, man. They don't want to talk to you. They want to get to the old mill. Just like, knock it off. So I'm talking to this guy, and he's a Scotsman through and through. He's like, I've never lived outside of this very particular part of the country.
[00:16:39] Never been to the States. And so where are you from? I say Oregon, and then kind of tell him where Oregon is and basically just describe it, you know, basically as far as you can go in the United States from Scotland.
[00:16:49] And he. He looks at me and he goes.
[00:16:53] I'm debating whether or not to say it in an accent or not, but he says, you come all this way for A walk. You know, you came all the way out here for a walk, and I'm like, yeah, don't you have any trails out where you're at? A lot of trails, actually.
[00:17:18] What's the deal?
[00:17:20] You came out here to do this. This is very unimpressive. You're gonna walk in the countryside. You're gonna see sheep and cows and. And green pastures, and you're going to end up on this. And I'm like, yeah, well, yeah, that's kind of the idea. But even the idea behind a pilgrimage is that it's this reminder to us that this is often how our lives look, that there's this slow pace forward and there's ups and there's downs, and there's great weather and there's inclement weather. And this is how our lives will look. And the job for us is to simply stay faithful and to continue to move forward.
[00:17:51] Right. So even though it's unimpressive, nobody gathered around you today and watched you walk across the parking lot and say, that was unbelievable.
[00:18:00] It's an ordinary practice. It's incredibly repetitive.
[00:18:04] It's slow.
[00:18:05] But walking gets you somewhere.
[00:18:10] And that's one of Paul's favorite metaphors for the Christian life, that we would walk with God. And so I would encourage you today, Tuesday morning when no one's watching, and Wednesday afternoon when you're tired, and Thursday when someone annoys you at work, again and again and again. Friday, when you're discouraged, and Saturday when your plans didn't work out, and Sunday when you worship, and then Monday again. This is an opportunity to walk by the Spirit one step at a time, one step at a time.
[00:18:34] And then Paul tells us what begins happening to a human being who continues to walk with the spirit in Galatians 5. 22 says, Then the fruit of the Spirit comes. And the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control and notice. Again, Paul says fruit. He doesn't say fireworks.
[00:18:55] I read an Instagram post from a musician called Andy Squires this last week and was really.
[00:19:02] He kind of stopped me in my tracks reading this. Actually, he says this. He says, you're not required to be compelled by another person's spiritual hyperventilating.
[00:19:11] I love that.
[00:19:14] I believe in being matured by the trials of life. I believe in being sanctified by the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit. But I refuse the false God of pietism.
[00:19:23] Spiritual hyperventilating.
[00:19:26] Hey, guys. I've grown up in an evangelical Pentecostal context. I've been a pastor since I was 19 years old, and I need to let you know that spiritual hyperventilating is a club that I have in my bag.
[00:19:39] I'm pretty good at it, actually.
[00:19:42] And I want you to laugh at me here for a second, because for a pastor, there's nothing more like that we can kind of gather around and agree on than this moment that we've all had when we feel like we've preached really, really well. And then we have an altar call at the end where we're asking people to respond and come forward, and nobody comes.
[00:20:04] And then we're like, okay, I've got two options. We can stay here as long as it takes until someone gets saved, and I've got a lot of pride over here, so I can wait.
[00:20:16] Or the other option is to cut bait, get out of there and into the car as quickly as you can, and cry yourself to sleep. Those are the two options.
[00:20:25] So I know that moment where it feels like we've got to conjure up something in order to be affirmed as pastors, but often as people in Christ followers, that that something is happening, that the presence of God really exists and is here, and we can spiritually hyperventilate ourselves into feeling something that maybe God isn't asking us to feel or experience at the time. Right? And some of us have spent enormous amounts of our spiritual lives feeling like somebody else is always telling us, you should be more excited and you should do more and pray more, and you should fast more, and you should evangelize more and read more and sacrifice more, and you should be radical.
[00:20:58] You got to get this going. If you really believed in Jesus, this is how it would be.
[00:21:04] Now, here's the problem, though, is that I believe that we can spend our entire Christian life wondering whether we're doing enough to prove that we really love Jesus. And we can call that discipleship and we can trick ourselves into it.
[00:21:17] But sometimes I actually think this way of following Jesus is really just anxiety. Wearing religious clothing.
[00:21:24] There's a better journey that is actually available to us.
[00:21:30] There's this thing that Evan and I really love to reference. It's called the Critical Journey. And it's this. I think we have a picture of the graph. It shows you, like, these six steps of how people experience the journey of life. And the first three steps, I'll take you through it quickly. It's a great book by Janet Hagberg, and you should go ahead and check this out for yourself at least. It was really helpful to me, but I'LL take you through a few of these steps that she describes in this book. The first step in the critical journey, or the Christian spiritual journey, is recognition of God. We learn, we awaken to God's reality. We begin responding to grace, faith and relationship. That's the first thing that happens. The second step, we start a life of discipleship. We learn the faith, develop spiritual practices, and begin growing within a Christian community.
[00:22:15] And then we enter into the productive life from that place. Faith becomes active and outward as we serve, lead, accomplish, and use our gifts for God. And then the fourth one is the journey inward. Our old formulas stop working, deeper questions emerge, and God begins confronting what is beneath the surface. And then the next spot isn't really a step, but I think it's the most intriguing part of this graph, is then there's a wall.
[00:22:41] And that's often where we stop.
[00:22:44] And we're presented with a couple of options. Once we reach that wall, loop back to phase one.
[00:22:52] Because we like the energy that goes into these early phases.
[00:22:57] We feel like there's so much production to do and there's so much history to be made. And so a lot of times we'll loop back and we'll get a re revelation of God. We'll recognize him again. We'll enter into another life of discipleship, maybe with some different practices, and then we'll be producing again. But that wall is often waiting for us again once our old formulas stop working and the deeper questions emerge in step four.
[00:23:22] And so this is the place. And if you've ever known anybody that's really left the faith, and especially in some kind of dramatic fashion, this is often what they've experienced. They've gone up to the wall, and then they've gone back to the beginning, and then they've gone up to the wall again. And eventually the exhaustion that happens with the wall leads to this kind of ejection from the faith.
[00:23:42] But if we are patient with ourselves and we understand that God's value on us does not happen as a result of all the goals that we accomplish and all the history that we make, but instead that the grace that is sufficient for us at the beginning of our journey is still sufficient for us at the wall, if we can be patient with ourselves and walk through that process, and sometimes moving through that process means sitting and weeping at that wall, then we reach step four, five, the journey outward. Having finally surrendered our need for control and certainty, we reengage the world with greater freedom, humility, and love.
[00:24:19] And then number six, the life of love. Union with God increasingly produces a life characterized by self giving, love, compassion, and peaceful presence.
[00:24:31] Our value being placed on making history and doing things and going places where no man or woman has gone before.
[00:24:37] The energy only lasts us so long, and ultimately the wall overcomes those things. But I promise you, if we rest and we sit with the greatness of God long enough and patiently enough, we experience freedom, humility and love. And ultimately this union with God that our souls have been longing for from the beginning.
[00:24:56] There's a real depth of the journey that we reach in this place.
[00:25:03] Now, I want to be really clear and careful. Paul's not against spiritual disciplines, by the way. He's not against passion. He's not against holiness.
[00:25:10] Paul's certainly not saying, just relax, nothing matters.
[00:25:15] That's not what Paul is saying by any means. And that's not what I'm trying to communicate to you today.
[00:25:20] The opposite is true, is that Paul is actually taking transformation incredibly seriously. But there's a difference between formation and performance.
[00:25:30] Performance can only last you so long. There's only so much energy that we have for that. Formation takes us through the wall of faith, and performance stops us short, leaving us only with the opportunity to go back to the beginning or to quit altogether.
[00:25:45] There's a difference between I pray because I want to be with God and I pray because I need to prove that I'm actually serious about God.
[00:25:52] There's a difference between I fast because I want my desires reordered, and I fast because I want to feel more spiritually legitimate. And one is freedom and the other is slavery. That still exists for us today, not just in Paul's context.
[00:26:05] And Galatians is fundamentally this letter that is about freedom.
[00:26:11] And as we get prepared to close, this leads us back to First Thessalonians 4, where Paul says, make it your ambition to lead a quiet life. And then he gets practical. You should mind your own business and work with your hands.
[00:26:25] Elbow somebody that needs to mind their own business.
[00:26:27] Just kidding. Don't do that.
[00:26:32] Now I understand why this verse hasn't become quite as popular as so many others. Right.
[00:26:40] I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
[00:26:44] Also Paul's words.
[00:26:48] But I do believe that live quietly and mind your business and do your work. Actually, in a way, it preaches.
[00:26:53] Paul's vision of Christian maturity is kind of like has this earthy texture to it.
[00:27:00] He's not telling everybody to abandon ordinary life so they can finally actually do something spectacular for God. He's telling them, live faithfully where you are. Do the work in front of you. Treat people well, stay out of everybody else's drama, and. And pay attention to your soul.
[00:27:17] Love your neighbor, keep following Jesus.
[00:27:21] And I think there's something incredibly beautiful about that.
[00:27:24] I would even go as far to say, is there something deeply radical about that?
[00:27:29] I don't know how many people are willing and ready to live this kind of life.
[00:27:35] And this really captured me yesterday as I'm going through my notes and the direction that I want to go in for Sunday, like, Saturdays, I'm usually not completely paying attention to what's in the room. I'm thinking about you guys. And today. And honestly, I gotten to a point, it's funny, because Evan and I moved the speaking schedule around a little bit, and I was. I'm gonna. I'm gonna preach today. Right now. I'm gonna preach right now. And so we had all these questions that we had come up with on the board, and Evan was like, look, just. Just. Just pick one and preacher. I was like, oh, man. I want. I want that question. Does my faith have to be radical? That's great. And then by. By Friday, I was like, this is stupid.
[00:28:16] I don't like this question at all. Because my. My initial answer is, no, it should not be. And then as I go on, I'm like, yes. And I end up feeling a little bit like Vasini and the Princess Bride. You know, it was like, you know, I clearly can't choose the wine in front of me, but only slightly less well known as this. You know, like, I'm doing this. I'm. I'm building a retaining wall out in front of my house, and I'm going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, and I'm going, no, no, it should not be radical. I'm like, I'm. Am I serious? I'm going to go preach to the church that we should be passionless about this faith that we have. What kind of a pastor am I?
[00:28:54] And I'm building this retaining wall, and, you know, it's starting to rain a little bit or whatever. I'm getting tired. And then my neighbor Joe comes out, and he opens up the gate, and he's going for his mail, and he sees that I'm building this wall, and he comes over, he goes, hey, that wall looks great, man. How long have you been out here? And whatever. And Joe's recently recovered from a cancer diagnosis. He just had a big operation a few months ago and had to go to Seattle and do all this stuff. And he comes over and he compliments me on my retaining wall because he's a nice guy like that. And I look at him and go, hey, you look amazing.
[00:29:29] I had colors coming back into your face and like, you look like you're moving really, really well. And. And all of a sudden we're kind of getting after this like, soul conversation. He's talking about how tough recovery's been and some of the stuff that he's worried about in the future. And. And literally my hand is like resting on this retaining wall that's still unfinished. And he's just going to get his mail.
[00:29:52] And I don't know, you guys, maybe I'm over spiritualizing or it's just. I'm just a pastor that needed some material for a preaching the next day.
[00:30:00] But I'm having this conversation. I'm going, this is it.
[00:30:05] This is it.
[00:30:06] That eighth grader that was singing History Maker by Delirious that was saying, we're gonna go to places that nobody's ever gone before and we're gonna do it. I'm going, I'm doing it right here.
[00:30:16] And I'm doing it on the 200th block of this retaining wall in the sweat and the dust and the disgusting smell that I am. And my neighbor just walked out to get the mail and we're having a conversation and this crazy thing is happening where I have to believe the presence of God is inside this grace filled conversation full of hope with someone who is literally my neighbor.
[00:30:37] And I'm going, oh, maybe this is it.
[00:30:43] I had all these plans to grow this church to be this incredible speaker and someone that has an influence and all this stuff. And I'm like, hey, Joe, you look great.
[00:30:52] Bam.
[00:30:54] That's where God shows up.
[00:30:57] And I'll be darned if anybody's gonna look at me and say, well, look at everything that I've accomplished and this is what you have to show. And I say, this is what I have to show.
[00:31:06] I don't know if I'm gonna be. Be a great church grower and builder, and I don't know if I'm going to be the best speaker in the whole world like I one day hoped that I would be. But I know that I was there with Joe yesterday when he was getting the mail and I was building a wall and we talked and cared for and loved and encouraged one another.
[00:31:22] That's pretty radical.
[00:31:25] And so maybe, maybe it's our fault. Maybe the, the word radical usually makes us think extreme or dramatic or dangerous, you know, but maybe there's another kind of radical Christianity that God is after with us.
[00:31:42] And so I want you to listen to what Paul talks about immediately after the fruit of the Spirit, right? He doesn't suddenly launch into some extraordinary spiritual assignment.
[00:31:50] He says these things. He says, if somebody gets caught in sin, restore them gently.
[00:31:56] If someone's carrying something heavy, help carry their burden.
[00:32:01] Don't think you're better than everyone else. Pay attention to your own life. Don't grow weary in doing good.
[00:32:07] And whenever you get the opportunity, do good to people.
[00:32:12] And so maybe you came here today thinking you'd be farther along, right? Maybe you thought you'd be more spiritual by now, more disciplined, more mature, more certain. And I hope that a lot of those things happen for you. They have happened for me along the way.
[00:32:24] Maybe somebody else's fate looks more impressive than yours. And you feel behind. And Paul would say, stop measuring. Christ has set you free. You belong to Jesus. The spirit of God is now alive in you. And so walk.
[00:32:37] Amen.
