[00:00:01] Speaker A: From Westside Church in Bend, Oregon, you're listening to behind the message.
Each week we take you behind what we teach here at Westside. I'm Evan Earwicker, and I am joined today in the studio with pastor Dave Daley. Hi, Dave.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Hi. Hey, Evan. Good to see you.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: And also our worship pastor, Pastor Lindsey Parnell. Hi, Lindsay.
[00:00:25] Speaker C: Hello. Hello. Hello.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: Today we are continuing our walk through Philippians. Hope you've been following along with Us week by week, as we are not only preaching this on the weekends, but we're also talking through the book of Philippians in our classes and small groups and ministries, and then also through this behind the Message podcast. Today we are in Philippians chapter two, where Paul is going to talk to us about the attitude that we live, which is to do everything without grumbling and complaining, and how that sets us apart in a world that is not naturally filled with people like what Jesus modeled for us. Right?
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. He says to be shining examples of christlikeness, which is not our natural state, not my natural state of being. Lindsey's more like that probably all the time.
But, yeah, I let my junk and my stress and my fear and anxiety mainly run my example in the world. And so coming into Christ likeness is this submission that shines a light that's not ours. It's Christ in us.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: When you think about Jesus as our example, I think super easy to deify him to the point where we remove his personality from it. And Paul, of course, never walked with the historical Jesus. He encountered him on the road to Damascus. So that's a different experience than disciples had. I wonder, for the disciples perspective, they're not just getting son of God Jesus, they're getting fully human Jesus as well. And I wonder how his personality came out in the way that he walked, because we find times when he's seemingly a little grumpy with people or he's short or he's like, I gotta get out, you know, and be myself for a while. These sounds strikingly familiar as humans, right. And so finding the Jesus example that allows for our humanity, I think, is something that we're given in the gospels, right?
[00:02:29] Speaker C: Yeah. I think we have a tendency to do exactly what you said to deify Jesus to the point where we remove his humanity and therefore any relatability.
We think, well, yeah, he was God, so I can't do that or think that or act that way.
And I think that does a disservice to the incarnation. Right. Like, that was the point. Jesus with us, Jesus fully God, but also fully man. And so we can actually look to his example in the gospels left for us. And even what Paul is saying here and know that this is not beyond us. This is not unattainable. This is not for the ultra holy or those who, you know, are monks up high on a hill that have removed themselves from, you know, culture and daily life.
It is absolutely attainable. And so when we read these words, it shouldn't be a discouragement, which I know it has been for me in the past. Like, you have no idea what I deal with every day. I complain it's my second language, but it is actually something that should be inspiring because it wouldn't be there if we couldn't do it.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's right. I think there's a part of this that the way jewish writing is, it's so stoic. So we kind of only experience Jesus in the writings as kind of, like, argumentative. Or you ask me a question, so I respond with a question or corrective, which is instructive. I mean, this is the way it's written for a purpose. But we miss, like, the moments Jesus is probably laughing and has inside jokes with, like, his disciples. And, you know, I've got this image in my head of, like, when there's a point where Peter walks on water and falls down and Jesus pulls him up and he's like, ye of little faith. And I always read that as, like, kind of, like, condemning or, like, stern. But I just wonder if he, like, shakes his hair, like, grabs him, is like, oh, ye of little faith. Come on, man. You know, like, I just imagine there's, like, this human side of Jesus that knows, obviously, he's propelled by love. The joy before him of the cross is, like bringing us home. So there's this capacity of love in Jesus that we don't pick up in the scriptures, but I think is, like, so central to following him is knowing. Like, he really delights in us. And that's important.
[00:04:52] Speaker C: What about a playful Jesus or a light hearted Jesus, as you say, those things? Like, when I picture Jesus, I think sometimes my default is to see a frown on his face or disapproval, you know? But I don't think that's actually what he looks like when he looks at me or thinks of me or when he thinks of you, Dave, or Evan or anyone.
Yeah. What if we thought of Jesus as playful and lighthearted and taking delight in his children and not thinking, well, you grumble and complain too much, you know, I think that's really life giving, a life giving thought.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that would be super transformational if we allow ourselves to, like, receive that love from him and experience him that way.
Yeah. And I think the church has embodied that stoic side of, like, raising children and being followers of Jesus. Jesus is, like, basically, stop messing up, because God hates when you sin and mess up. But in the scriptures we're reading, like, he's overcome all of this on our behalf while we were still in our mess. He pursues us. You know, like, all of that heart needs to be, I think, reimagined in this time of following Jesus and how.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: We model that and image that should make us, like it was for him, totally, to make us into people that are drawing children to us and drawing, hurting people to us. And when I think of, like, stoic religious leader or religious teacher, is that the kind of person that my little kid is gonna go run up to? No, of course not. Totally. And yet in the gospels, like, you're saying, we have his sayings, which tend to be stoic, and we've religionized religious. We've made them religious.
[00:06:39] Speaker C: That's good recovery.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: We've made them religious. But we see in the text, it's right there, all these people who are not intimidated to go up to him and to ask him. And there was this quote. I used it years ago in a message, but I loved the quote. It said, the only person who dares to ask a king for a glass of water in the night is a child.
And so this image of Jesus as approachable, I think, has been lost maybe in a lot of ways that we do church. And so when we see model your life after the way of Jesus, we can actually click into something that is very, I think, far off from who he actually was.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. The words that are coming to mind as you're saying that Evan is distant versus intimate, that relational nearness, I think many of us have lived, maybe even been taught that God is a distant figure that has done something for us that's important and made a way that we can kind of pursue. But he's always going to be way out there. And the whole message of all of scripture, I think, from Genesis to revelation, is this pursuit of man, God's pursuit of man, moving in and intimacy.
And then even in this passage we're reading, he's highlighting people that embody this nearness to humanity instead of a distant or religious kind of stiff arming of humanity. And so Timothy, in Epaphroditus and Paul's example are these people that have experienced Christ near been transformed in it, and it moves them, and they embody this way of being human that draws them nearer again to more people.
[00:08:33] Speaker C: Yeah.
Your first thought, distant versus intimate.
And people who embody that, I think we. I also do this. I get it in my head I need to do all these things to be intimate, that my sin or my lack of behavior modification, getting it together causes distance between me and God. And I'm reminded of the passage in Romans, I think it's chapter eight. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. And so approaching that intimacy, the thought of the nearness of God, that nothing is standing in the way, not even my own mess, not allowing the goal to be, do not grumble or complain. And I'm using that example a lot, but really insert your own. Whatever our issue is, right, don't let that be the focus, but nearness to God be the focus. And trusting that as I trust that he is near to me, that nothing I can do can separate me from him, I will begin to be transformed into his likeness. It's not that the goal is not be this, do this. The goal is know Jesus, and then in turn, become a person who embodies that intimacy, who is like Timothy epaphrodite. I was very scared to say that name just now. That's a tough one. Thank you. You know, but those people that you want to be around because there's something about them, you know, they know Jesus. They've been with Jesus. And so I think we have to reframe the way we approach our faith and relationship with God. That it cannot be. I need to try and do all these things better, but it needs to be Christ in me, the hope of glory right now.
[00:10:22] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. It's a life of surrender versus performance. Right? That's a hard thing for us, because every. Everything else in our life is really affirmed for the performing part, right. Of, like, how much you made this year, and did you build your business and your influence and blah, blah, blah, platforms you're building? All of that is really what's celebrated. And in this life of Christ, it's a surrendering posture. And even Paul gets into this, of, like, I have all of the stuff. Like, what do you want? You need degrees. I've got degrees. You need experience. I've got experience. You need leadership training. Leadership, like, he led this movement in the hebrew church, has this experience with Jesus, and he looks back and says, oh, actually, everything I've done, all of my resume is filth. It's just a dung heap. That's what he calls it compared to what Christ has done. And then I just step into that. It's super counterintuitive and I think our life is a journey of learning how to do this, continually surrendering. But it produces a kind of person that Paul's highlighting, like the Timothy is epaphroditus and like his own, his own life.
[00:11:37] Speaker A: Yeah, let me read that passage. This is Philippians three starting in verse seven. But whatever were gains to me, I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus, my lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage. He uses in the Greek.
It's.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Go ahead.
[00:12:01] Speaker C: It's an expletive.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: Saucy language.
[00:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I would say, but I don't want to have to put explicit on our podcast reading.
[00:12:12] Speaker B: We'll probably get more engagement maybe.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, I consider them garbage that I may gain Christ and be found in him not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. I want to know Christ and this really speaks to that, knowing Christ as the heart right of our faith. Yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death and so somehow obtaining resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead, I press on towards the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
My goodness. I mean, such beautiful writing. And I'm imagining, I mean, Paul's sitting in this dank, dark, wet, disease ridden cell, probably has a scribe by candlelight penning these words beside him. And for that to be the environment from which comes these words that thousands of years later carry such power, I think is a testament to the Holy Spirit at work in what was happening in this moment.
And I think this is where the Pentecostals, and we're a Pentecostal, part of a pentecostal movement, I'm so grateful for it is because we lean so heavily in our doctrine, in our practice on the Holy Spirit bringing to life what is otherwise inaccessible to us. Right? So we don't have access to the historical Jesus. We can't look in on that we can't walk alongside him, but we have the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit brings what is far away in Jesus right here. It allows us to have the same kind of experience that Paul had on the Damascus road. Right. Paul never met Jesus face to face as Jesus walked the earth either. So that puts us in a category where we can have that access to the Holy Spirit, to these same kind of moments where, you know, life can be really, really hard, and yet the Holy Spirit creates this beauty in the middle of it.
[00:14:29] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:14:30] Speaker B: Amen. That's right.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: With that in three, seven.
To go back to it. Paul is wrestling with this idea of loss. And sometimes I think, yeah, well, of course he is. Like, he's lost everything. He's in prison. He has nothing left to lose except his life.
That doesn't apply to me or to you, Lindsey or Dave. We have a lot going for us. We have family and our freedom and we're not, you know, incarcerated and we're not, you know, so we have all this to lose. Is the. Is the message the same for us, even though we're not at the low of the low that Paul's at?
[00:15:11] Speaker B: What do you think, Clint?
[00:15:13] Speaker C: For me, it has to do with prizing Christ over other things that are the prize. Right. So Paul has dealt with all this loss, and I can't relate, but I have a lot of other stuff in my life that I prize, that I value, that take the place of areas where Jesus should really be king. And so I think, you know, he's talking about, while he's dealt with loss, he also, like Dave mentioned earlier, he also had a lot going for him at another time in his life. Right? He had the accolades. He had the degrees. He had all the things. And I think he. What he is saying here could even be applied to that. All of that also is loss. I consider it all loss compared with knowing Jesus Christ. And so it's evaluating my own life. One thing I'm always struck by when I read Paul, especially in Philippians, especially chapter two, is how high Paul held Christ in such high regard that if I sit there and think about it, I don't know that I think of anybody that way in my own life. He held himself. Everything had to do with. With Jesus. Everything came back to Jesus. It all was Jesus. Jesus, Jesus. Jesus. Even the way he wrote the book of Philippians was built on this beautiful poem about how amazing and wonderful Jesus Christ is. And just to be real, I don't feel that way about Jesus. I want to get to that place. I want to grow to that place. And so I think when I look at that verse, I see it's something to attain. It's something I aspire to be. I don't feel condemnation or shame, but I do feel that wrestling, right, like, counting it all as loss, thinking of what I do prize, what I do hold. And where does Jesus stand with all of that? Does that make sense?
[00:17:13] Speaker A: It makes me think that maybe it is those things that we haven't lost yet, that we haven't counted as lost yet, that are keeping us from that place where we hold Jesus in that high regard.
He's maybe not yet the prize, because we have a lot of other prizes that are still pretty great.
[00:17:29] Speaker C: Totally.
[00:17:30] Speaker A: And Paul would evidently tell us from the prison. So, like, I've done all that. Trust me, it doesn't give you what it promises to give you. And now here, with nothing left, all I have is my life. Even that.
I'm telling you, it isn't what it promised. And so all we have then, when all that goes away, right, is Jesus and him alone. And when we get to that point, I think that is the place where we maybe see him, like Paul has come to see him, which is above all and in all. And, yeah.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting in the way this book is written. It's called a chiasm. It's a hebrew way of writing that's basically a pyramid. And so the intro matches the closing.
This section that we're in matches the early mid first chapter where he says, to live is Christ, to die is gain. So these two things are connected. It peaks at the Christ poem.
And so, yeah, if we link back what he's saying now, to live as Christ, to die is gain. I think the way I heard Tim Keller was putting it is that insert whatever into if I lose x, my life falls apart. And that might be a romantic relationship, that might be your children, that might be your career, it might be whatever. And Paul puts in Christ in that empty section. Like, if I lose Christ, my life falls apart. And I think all of us have lots of other things stuffed into that category.
And this journey is a journey of, like, how does Christ become that thing, that thing that if I were actually to lose that there is nothing else. Everything else has its place. Like the center of the sun of our galaxy is Christ. And everything falls into right order when that is in place, because nothing else is really. There's no human soul that's made to bear the weight of my soul, right? So if I try to do that with Noelle, my wife. And, like, if I lose Noelle, my life falls apart. There's, like, a truth. I can feel that in my body. To think of losing Noelle, that would feel like I've lost everything.
But that's not true. And to treat Noelle that way, and if I were to live that way, it would crush Noelle. Cause she's not made to hold my soul. Only Christ is made to hold our soul that way. And Paul's figured that out. And so all the other circumstances can fall into right rotational order. When Christ is at the center correctly.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: He echoes, I think, Jesus words on his way to Jerusalem, where Jesus famously talks about, if you want to save your life, you have to lose it. Take up your cross. Follow me. Paul is echoing these words as he's considering his own death. So I see this really cool echo of Paul is seeing himself wrapped up in the journey that Jesus took towards the cross, as he's considering this might be the end for me. And then he says it. I mean, he spells it out. He says, I want to know Christ. Yes. To know the power of his resurrection. So he starts with the end, and then he works his way back to himself in his current moment and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in death, and so somehow attaining resurrection from the dead. So I see Paul peering back into those final days of the life of Jesus and saying, that's where I want to be. And I think that's where I am. And it gives him, instead of a sense of dread or despair, somehow it gives him joy.
[00:21:14] Speaker B: This is, like, weighty stuff.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Power of the gospel in suffering.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Totally. And I think that word participation, I think you read participation in his suffering is so important because for most of us, we think of the journey with Christ as, like, believing something. Like, if I believe it, if I have faith for it, which is all true, but we kind of stop there.
And then if we were to be in Paul's circumstance, chained to a guard in a prison cell, we would say, well, what happened? What went wrong? Because obviously, I'm supposed to be in this kind of, like, glorious life with Jesus, where things go well. And Paul doesn't see it that way. He said, this is my participation in the life of Christ, is modeling, living, embodying the good and the bad, and that even, like, the good can overcome the bad regardless if the bad is, like, all around me. That's, like, next level stuff.
[00:22:11] Speaker C: That's profound, what you just said.
To think of my own personal suffering as participating in the suffering of Christ, I've never done that before, ever. Truly, my mentality is I'm an entitled millennial. And how dare you, Lord? Like, how dare you? You let me walk through such hard, horrible things, and this is probably another podcast for another time. But to hone in on associating hardship in this life with the privilege, truly, of participating in the suffering of Christ, that is a profound thought. And I think it would not only revolutionize me, my spirit, my soul, my body, the way I view this life and things my kids walk through, my parents walk through all that, all of it, but it would revolutionize culture.
It would just. Yeah, it changes the game. If we can reframe how we view suffering, which is not easy to do. Nor does it sound like fun, if I'm being honest.
[00:23:14] Speaker B: No, you're right. It totally doesn't. But what came to mind when you were sharing that, Lindsay, is that moment where Jesus is.
He goes to the tomb where Lazarus is buried, and Mary and Martha meet him, and they're basically like, what the heck? Like, we asked for you to be here. This would not have happened if you. Where were you? Like, all the things that you're saying that kind of like, well, my life was supposed to be better. What happened? And they point it directly at Jesus. And this is one of my favorite parts of the Bible. Like, Jesus doesn't respond to their accusation, their anger, their disappointment, frustration with condemnation. Like, who are you to talk to me? Watch what I'm about to do? He knows he's about to raise Lazarus from the dead.
Says he weeps with Mary. He weeps with her. And, like, some theologians are like, oh, he's weeping for Israel. But it doesn't say that. That's kind of conjecture. Mary's right in front of him. She's weeping, and her tears provoke a response of his tears. And so, full circle, our participation is gonna be suffering. There are gonna be lazaruses that die, and yet that's not the end of the story. One and two, Jesus enters into that suffering full circle with us, too. Right? So we participate in hard things that happen. But his promise is, I'm with you there, too. I'm gonna cry with you. Like, your tears matter. And that's just like, he holds all those things together for us.
[00:24:45] Speaker C: That's beautiful. And we also have Paul we can look at. You know, I think if you have grown up in the church or you've become very familiar with this story, yes, Paul was in chains. He was in prison. It's easy to just let that thought kind of go in one ear and out the other. But if you sit there and think about it, he's actually an example of someone who followed Christ and suffered, and we can look to him as an example. You know, all these examples we have in the Bible that for some reason don't hit until they hit, because they have to, because life gets real. There's horrible things that happen, and we have the presence of Christ through the Holy Spirit with us now. And we also have these very inspirational fathers and mothers of the faith that we can look to who endured as well and viewed it as participation in Christ's suffering, you know, and not injustice. How could this happen to me?
[00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I think the next step from that is, how do we become those people and how do we become models for the next generation, our kids, brothers and sisters in the church? How do we then become like, oh, I met Evan, I met Lindsey, and my faith was expanded because I saw their participation in what Jesus is doing and that will move them. And, you know, it's that beautiful ripple effect of the kingdom.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: Yeah. The cross becomes elevated when we talk about suffering in these ways.
If the whole point of the incarnation, God becoming man in Christ, was to enter into our sufferings, and he does that perfectly and fully on the cross, and then our job is to enter into his sufferings. We're all meeting right here at this moment, right. We're meeting in the sufferings of Christ as he's perfectly entering into the pain of humanity, and we are perfectly entering in, hopefully, to his sufferings right at the moment when the veil is torn. And so I think there's this picture that we're kind of painting as we're walking through this chapter of what reveals the presence of God. It's when we meet together in suffering at this point of salvation at the cross. And I think the best theologies around the cross come to this idea, right, that God has suffered with us in Christ and that our sufferings are not in vain. And somehow through that, we become those that invite others into the presence of God, that we model that, that we express that as well.
And maybe that's the kind of evangelism that I'm maybe more comfortable with than this debate based kind of, I'm gonna prove you wrong so that then you love God. Like, let's set that aside, let's suffer well and show the beauty of redemption in the midst of a hurting world. That breaks open the veil, that breaks open the presence of God to the world that's watching.
[00:27:52] Speaker C: Yeah. And on the other side of that is resurrection, right? And resurrection is a bit of a mystery to me. I don't know that I haven't nailed down on what that looks like right here, right now in my life, but I know it's promised. It's not just when we die. I do believe that there is resurrection life to be experienced here and now. So I know that the story doesn't end with suffering. And I know, you know, my personality is. I have a hard time leaving it just suffering, hardship, the end. And I don't want to. I don't want to skip over that, but I do want to remind us that on the other side is resurrection life, because Jesus didn't die and stay dead, right? He rose again. And Paul even says in verse ten, or actually eleven, sorry. And so somehow attaining to the resurrection from the dead, and that's following participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death. So, yeah, there is hope in the midst of it. And even if it is a bit mysterious, it is something we can hold onto and remind ourselves and others in the midst of their suffering as well.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: And that's how he ends it. And maybe that's how we'll end it. This section is in verse 21 when he says it's this power that enables him to bring everything under his control and he's going to transform our lowly bodies so he will be like his glorious body. So I think Paul knows, as in the deep parts of our hearts, we probably know, like, if there's no resurrection, if there's no life, if there's no Jesus out of the tomb, all this is a pretty stupid exercise. Let's just suffer and suffer and suffer and then die and that's it. But if there's resurrection, it brings life and purpose even in the middle of trouble. And I think that's what Paul had to wrestle with. Like, this didn't come by default. He didn't encounter Christ on the road to Damascus. And Jesus said, and write all this down, right? This is all coming out of lived experience and horrible trouble and pain and beatings and long nights with no food. And this is where it comes out of. And I think for us, a lot of times, we want to make this an intellectual exercise. And, like, I want to understand what it is to suffer without actually suffering. I don't think you can. I don't think that's how it works. And so the invitation maybe, to all of us is, don't shy away when life starts to take a turn that feels like, wait, this is not going the way I planned. Maybe that's your invitation into not just intellectually understanding something, but living out the invitation of Paul in Christ.
[00:30:24] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Thanks for joining us listeners today as we are continuing our walk through Philippians. We'll be here for another two weeks. As we get towards the end of Philippians, you can hear our Sunday
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